croz Here is a suggestion for Davis and you and other coup groupies to ponder on? Why can't Fiji just go through the charade with the junta and its self appointed PM when all is good, but revert to real and competent leadership (preferably elected as previously) when disaster hits so that they can clean up the mess properly?
Please go back to Mr.Davis' contribution and re-read it. You have obviously not understood that it is not political reportage or political commentary; or about cleaning up after the fact. It is purely and simply a well-thought out suggestion that perhaps development and interferance with the ebnvironment may possibly have contributed to the disaster and what, by inference, could and should be done to avoid/lessen the impact in the future. You should have commented only on the article and maybe offered a thought or two of your own, recognizing that there has been a disaster, people are suffering, need all forms of relief, including positive suggestions to help for now and the future. They don't give a stuff at this time about politics, especially negative politics.
Judging from your writing and the writings of similarly inclined bloggers, you appear to me to be like political psychopaths who sleep, dream, eat and shit politics everyday. Grow up and get it out of your mind that blogging is somehow going to topple the government whether or not you like it.
As an aside,and assuming Mr. Davis comment on developments in the Nadi area are correct, please be informed that these developments,including Denarau were in place long before the current "junta" (to use your term) came to power.
Now here's something to ponder on, "ponder on" - the total inanity of your comment and why on earth you would inflict it on all of us at a time of national crisis. I haven't heard one critical comment about the regime's response to the floods. In fact, most people I know are deeply grateful that it governs and not the rabble that preceded it. Do us all a favour and at least hold off on your cheap politicking until after the crisis is over.
I see Ram Raju, the president of the Nadi Chamber of Commerce, is saying the relocation of Nadi is the last thing on their minds at the moment. But that's not ruling it out. When the shock of the floods is over, they're going to have to confront this problem. Certainly, no-one is going to build anything in the existing Nadi business area the way things are. Why would you? If they don't move, it will be a town in an arrested state of development. That's hardly progress, considering the rapid growth of the Nadi-Martintar-Namaka corridor in the past 20 years or so. I think better to move now than later.
This article by John Ross http://www.fijisun.com.fj/2012/03/03/action-plan/ is well written. I felt at the time that it deserved a wide audience. Perhaps now it, and the hydrology reports which it refers to, might receive the attention they deserve.
Nadi’s flood will not be solved by civil engineering. They will be solved by relocation to higher ground.
No one would build on the beach below the high water mark because they would be inundated every 12 hours. The same will happen on a flood plain – only the timing will be different.
Something to ponder cannot differentiate between the grain and chaff and does himself a great disservice; depicting himself as a person whose life has not been touched by the light of civilization. Grow up man this is the 21st Century and there is abundunce of wisdom and knowledge that you need to acquire and mature before you start pontificating.
Something to ponder cannot differentiate between the grain and chaff and does himself a great disservice; depicting himself as a person whose life has not been touched by the light of civilization. Grow up man this is the 21st Century and there is abundunce of wisdom and knowledge that you need to acquire and mature before you start pontificating.
Bravo, Something to Ponder, a palpable hit judging by the comments of the coup supporters here!
I especially enjoyed the unwitting irony of Anonymous 5:53's comments, since your proposal is all about separating the 'wheat' (real, competent, and preferably elected leadership) from the 'chaff' (Bhainikhaiyum).
Then there's 'Joe Palooka'. Sounds like Graham Davis has found his amanuensis, if not soulmate, in 'Joe'. Reads just Iike Graham writing with greater licence under a pseudonym. Does 'Joe' betray the real intent of Graham's article as attempting to lay the blame for the flooding on the urban planning of previous governments? Graham's writing stands on its own, and he's well within his rights for making such an argument in any case. So, let the chips fall where they may. But nothing absolves this regime of the fact that it made a lot of promises after the January 2009 flooding, and those promises weren't kept.
And then there's the aptly-named 'Silly Sausage', who hasn't heard one critical comment about the regime's response to the flood. Sounds like the perfect supporter for the regime -- the blind leading the deaf!
The overall theme in their commentary seems to be that this is a time of national crisis, and so all Fijians should uncritically fall in line behind the regime's efforts. Hmmm, seems we've heard that before, but when? Oh, right -- in December 2006 and April 2009 and countless times since!
Why should anyone think that any government, but especially a regime that came to power through treason, should somehow get a free pass? I find it doubly hard to understand how some so-called journalists can sometimes make such a plea, given that holding government accountable is the raison d'être of their profession. Government is a public trust and its officers trustees. Both are accountable to the people.
'Fiji's 100 year flood' seems to be an awfully common occurrence under Bainimarama. Just saying.
Does this show God is angry at the regime? I don't presume to speak for Him; I only presume to beseech His mercy on Fiji.
A mighty fortress is our God, A bulwark never failing; Our helper He amid the flood Of mortal ills prevailing.
Commonsense, scientific observation and empirical evidence tell us that Nadi's flooding is not a "100 year" event but is a recurrent phenomenon. Given this and the response many years ago by the Insurance Companies based on actuarial evidence in refusing cover, relocation is the wisest and best outcome now. This should be a business decision and also a humanitarian decision. Employees should never be obliged to make their living in a location which can be demonstrated to be hazardous to their health and safety.
The Occupational Health and Safety response should be applied. Business owners should take their own counsel but if the Nadi Town Council takes a lead, relocation will be seen quickly to be the most sound and safe option for all.
No insurance cover? There is ample proof why. The scientific advisers to the IWRM made their position on the Nadi River Flood Basin clear last year. The fly-overs and studies on the ground support this position and reveal the safest locations for development. But...it is a big but, the State is obliged protect the areas in the peri-Nadi area which are already standing. It must do this Going Forward and it must accept accountability for past failures where only partial solutions have been applied.
Accountability does not apply because we are held to account by others. Accountability is a mechanism and a process by which we hold ourselves to account based on sound evidence. If harm has been done, accountability is required for such harm. Acts of God notwithstanding. What Disclaimers were applied by Town and Country Planning Departments when they blithely gave permits to build? Investors are watching. 'Caveat emptor'?
Croz, s/ Dakuwaqa's claim that "Joe" is me is simply not true. I have no reason whatsoever to seek anonymity on this issue.
There's a lot of good material in these postings - especially "Disclaimers" - but "something to ponder" and Dakuwaqa's aren't among them.
My piece was about the possibility of man made factors contributing to the present crisis. To give that a political element is not only factually unsupportable but highly insensitive under the circumstances.
These are desperate times. So is it too much to ask the usual gaggle of anti-regime supporters to lay off for a couple of weeks until Fiji is back on its feet?
What you wrote about had nothing to do with politics, it dwelt on development and environmental issues.
However the ex-gravy train passengers do politicise everything, and the message to these frustrated souls is to go and get a life ( and earn your living in a honest manner by your sweat and not on handouts !)
Graham, did I say that you are Joe Palooka? No, only that he sounds like you. You shouldn't be so defensive about it, imitation being the sincerest flattery. So please don't put words in my mouth. A professional journalist like yourself should be more careful with attribution.
It hurts my feelings that you didn't like my material, especially since Bainimarama's regime and the Fiji Sun hold you up as the standard for the kind of journalistic commentary they want to see, which is no mean achievement in a country without a free press!
I actually thought your piece was one of the best you've written. Certainly more factual.
Your plea for a two week moratorium is a capital idea. Why not take it even further? Tell you what we'll do -- when the dictator and his supporters observe a moratorium on committing treason, we'll lay off our pressure for the same period of time. What do you say to that? A win-win for Fiji!
13 comments:
croz
Here is a suggestion for Davis and you and other coup groupies to ponder on? Why can't Fiji just go through the charade with the junta and its self appointed PM when all is good, but revert to real and competent leadership (preferably elected as previously) when disaster hits so that they can clean up the mess properly?
To Something to ponder on:
Please go back to Mr.Davis' contribution and re-read it. You have obviously not understood that it is not political reportage or political commentary; or about cleaning up after the fact. It is purely and simply a well-thought out suggestion that perhaps development and interferance with the ebnvironment may possibly have contributed to the disaster and what, by inference, could and should be done to avoid/lessen the impact in the future. You should have commented only on the article and maybe offered a thought or two of your own, recognizing that there has been a disaster, people are suffering, need all forms of relief, including positive suggestions to help for now and the future. They don't give a stuff at this time about politics, especially negative politics.
Judging from your writing and the writings of similarly inclined bloggers, you appear to me to be like political psychopaths who sleep, dream, eat and shit politics everyday. Grow up and get it out of your mind that blogging is somehow going to topple the government whether or not you like it.
As an aside,and assuming Mr. Davis comment on developments in the Nadi area are correct, please be informed that these developments,including Denarau were in place long before the current "junta" (to use your term) came to power.
Now here's something to ponder on, "ponder on" - the total inanity of your comment and why on earth you would inflict it on all of us at a time of national crisis. I haven't heard one critical comment about the regime's response to the floods. In fact, most people I know are deeply grateful that it governs and not the rabble that preceded it. Do us all a favour and at least hold off on your cheap politicking until after the crisis is over.
I see Ram Raju, the president of the Nadi Chamber of Commerce, is saying the relocation of Nadi is the last thing on their minds at the moment. But that's not ruling it out. When the shock of the floods is over, they're going to have to confront this problem. Certainly, no-one is going to build anything in the existing Nadi business area the way things are. Why would you? If they don't move, it will be a town in an arrested state of development. That's hardly progress, considering the rapid growth of the Nadi-Martintar-Namaka corridor in the past 20 years or so. I think better to move now than later.
Crosbie
This article by John Ross http://www.fijisun.com.fj/2012/03/03/action-plan/ is well written. I felt at the time that it deserved a wide audience. Perhaps now it, and the hydrology reports which it refers to, might receive the attention they deserve.
Nadi’s flood will not be solved by civil engineering. They will be solved by relocation to higher ground.
No one would build on the beach below the high water mark because they would be inundated every 12 hours. The same will happen on a flood plain – only the timing will be different.
Something to ponder cannot differentiate between the grain and chaff and does himself a great disservice; depicting himself as a person whose life has not been touched by the light of civilization. Grow up man this is the 21st Century and there is abundunce of wisdom and knowledge that you need to acquire and mature before you start pontificating.
Something to ponder cannot differentiate between the grain and chaff and does himself a great disservice; depicting himself as a person whose life has not been touched by the light of civilization. Grow up man this is the 21st Century and there is abundunce of wisdom and knowledge that you need to acquire and mature before you start pontificating.
Is this Fiji's 100 year flood ( i.e one occurring every century)?
Bravo, Something to Ponder, a palpable hit judging by the comments of the coup supporters here!
I especially enjoyed the unwitting irony of Anonymous 5:53's comments, since your proposal is all about separating the 'wheat' (real, competent, and preferably elected leadership) from the 'chaff' (Bhainikhaiyum).
Then there's 'Joe Palooka'. Sounds like Graham Davis has found his amanuensis, if not soulmate, in 'Joe'. Reads just Iike Graham writing with greater licence under a pseudonym. Does 'Joe' betray the real intent of Graham's article as attempting to lay the blame for the flooding on the urban planning of previous governments? Graham's writing stands on its own, and he's well within his rights for making such an argument in any case. So, let the chips fall where they may. But nothing absolves this regime of the fact that it made a lot of promises after the January 2009 flooding, and those promises weren't kept.
And then there's the aptly-named 'Silly Sausage', who hasn't heard one critical comment about the regime's response to the flood. Sounds like the perfect supporter for the regime -- the blind leading the deaf!
The overall theme in their commentary seems to be that this is a time of national crisis, and so all Fijians should uncritically fall in line behind the regime's efforts. Hmmm, seems we've heard that before, but when? Oh, right -- in December 2006 and April 2009 and countless times since!
Why should anyone think that any government, but especially a regime that came to power through treason, should somehow get a free pass? I find it doubly hard to understand how some so-called journalists can sometimes make such a plea, given that holding government accountable is the raison d'être of their profession. Government is a public trust and its officers trustees. Both are accountable to the people.
'Fiji's 100 year flood' seems to be an awfully common occurrence under Bainimarama. Just saying.
Does this show God is angry at the regime? I don't presume to speak for Him; I only presume to beseech His mercy on Fiji.
A mighty fortress is our God,
A bulwark never failing;
Our helper He amid the flood
Of mortal ills prevailing.
s/ Dakuwaqa
@ fly half
Commonsense, scientific observation and empirical evidence tell us that Nadi's flooding is not a "100 year" event but is a recurrent phenomenon. Given this and the response many years ago by the Insurance Companies based on actuarial evidence in refusing cover, relocation is the wisest and best outcome now. This should be a business decision and also a humanitarian decision. Employees should never be obliged to make their living in a location which can be demonstrated to be hazardous to their health and safety.
The Occupational Health and Safety response should be applied. Business owners should take their own counsel but if the Nadi Town Council takes a lead, relocation will be seen quickly to be the most sound and safe option for all.
No insurance cover? There is ample proof why. The scientific advisers to the IWRM made their position on the Nadi River Flood Basin clear last year. The fly-overs and studies on the ground support this position and reveal the safest locations for development. But...it is a big but, the State is obliged protect the areas in the peri-Nadi area which are already standing. It must do this Going Forward and it must accept accountability for past failures where only partial solutions have been applied.
Accountability does not apply because we are held to account by others. Accountability is a mechanism and a process by which we hold ourselves to account based on sound evidence. If harm has been done, accountability is required for such harm. Acts of God notwithstanding. What Disclaimers were applied by Town and Country Planning Departments when they blithely gave permits to build? Investors are watching. 'Caveat emptor'?
Croz, s/ Dakuwaqa's claim that "Joe" is me is simply not true. I have no reason whatsoever to seek anonymity on this issue.
There's a lot of good material in these postings - especially "Disclaimers" - but "something to ponder" and Dakuwaqa's aren't among them.
My piece was about the possibility of man made factors contributing to the present crisis. To give that a political element is not only factually unsupportable but highly insensitive under the circumstances.
These are desperate times. So is it too much to ask the usual gaggle of anti-regime supporters to lay off for a couple of weeks until Fiji is back on its feet?
Well said Graham.
What you wrote about had nothing to do with politics, it dwelt on development and environmental issues.
However the ex-gravy train passengers do politicise everything, and the message to these frustrated souls is to go and get a life ( and earn your living in a honest manner by your sweat and not on handouts !)
Graham, did I say that you are Joe Palooka? No, only that he sounds like you. You shouldn't be so defensive about it, imitation being the sincerest flattery. So please don't put words in my mouth. A professional journalist like yourself should be more careful with attribution.
It hurts my feelings that you didn't like my material, especially since Bainimarama's regime and the Fiji Sun hold you up as the standard for the kind of journalistic commentary they want to see, which is no mean achievement in a country without a free press!
I actually thought your piece was one of the best you've written. Certainly more factual.
Your plea for a two week moratorium is a capital idea. Why not take it even further? Tell you what we'll do -- when the dictator and his supporters observe a moratorium on committing treason, we'll lay off our pressure for the same period of time. What do you say to that? A win-win for Fiji!
s/ Dakuwaqa
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