The Uncouth Speak

Blog publishers have problems knowing what to do about comments. Vet each one? Give free access and then delete the more obnoxious? Or leave them all, disgusting, untrue, libellous or otherwise?  I used to vet each comment but now let all though and delete only the worst.

"Peter Firkins", the  FijiToday publisher, seems to have opted for leaving them all in.   Check out this link to read what his readers had to say on my "Open Letter to the Prime Minister" and tell me what you would do if you were Peter.

[Two readers have said they are having problems reading the comments on this post, and have been unable to comment themselves.  Please email me croz.walsh@xtra.co.nz if you are having this problem. I'll post on your behalf, as I have with Shaista's,  until the problem is fixed.]

Comments

Joe said…
It only makes C4.5 look a tiny bit better. Honestly, if was Peter I would permanently disable the comments section. The only sensible comments were by Bill Carson and some other poster, in the form of advice to those morons.
Anonymous said…
At least C4.5 doesn't bully or name call it's fellow bloggers. Unlike grubsheet which has become good at throwing abuse when things are negative towards the regime. I guess he gets paid by amount of praise comments on his blog for Frankie.
Gaddafi in the gutter said…
Croz
You and other junta slurpers might as well get used to it. This war against treasonous scumbags and their cowardly supporters is a long way from being over. Like the dictatorship in Libya, it will eventually be brought to justice.
so now go and play the race card and have a big bleat. Oh, and tell your weasly cowardly little troll Cole to harden up as well.
Anonymous said…
Hey RC, stick your law degree up your rear you imbecile. Have you got a job yet in OZ? Mummy Asha is looking for a toilet cleaner if you are interested.
Graham Davis said…
I have the same problem, Croz - the gutless, the stupid and the malignant hiding behind their cloaks of anonymity and spraying venom in the interests of restoring "democracy". They never grasp the startling irony of their position, waging a campaign of hatred against the likes of you and me for expressing contrary opinions.

Whoever "Peter Firkin" is, he's adopted the stance of Coup 4.5 in allowing even the most obscene and disgusting material on his site, quite apart from adopting intellectual waifs like poor Marc Edge and giving them a platform to attack us. But no matter. These people are our best asset. Faceless - in the case of the phantoms - and impotent - in the case of all of them - they flay around in their desolate cyber playground, knowing full well that events in Fiji are beyond their control. They will get their say at the ballor box like everyone else. But democrats they are not.
Crosbie Walsh said…
Hi Croz,

I tried to send the following commentary to your website but could not up-load it for some reason- what profile should I use when I want to comment?

Any way here is my opinion on the obnoxiois blogs: could you publish?



Dear Croz,

I find myself to be quite the libertarian about other people's views of my opinions. If I have an opinion about something and wish to publish it, I think other people should be able to do that too.

But both bloggers and publishers should be aware of section 30 limitations to freedom of expression in the 1997 Constitution (since most bloggers want that Constitution back). Look at this section below:
*********************

Freedom of expression

30.-(1) Every person has the right to freedom of speech and expression, including:

(a) freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas; and

(b) freedom of the press and other media.


(2) A law may limit, or may authorise the limitation of, the right to freedom of expression in the interests of:

(a) national security, public safety, public order, public morality, public health or the orderly conduct of national or municipal elections;

(b) the protection or maintenance of the reputation, privacy, dignity, rights or freedoms of other persons, including:

(i) the right to be free from hate speech, whether directed against individuals or groups; and

(ii) the right of persons injured by inaccurate or offensive media reports to have a correction published on reasonable conditions established by law;

(c) preventing the disclosure, as appropriate, of information received in confidence;

(d) preventing attacks on the dignity of individuals, groups or communities or respected offices or institutions in a manner likely to promote ill will between races or communities or the oppression of, or discrimination against, any person or persons;

(e) maintaining the authority and independence of the courts;

(f) imposing reasonable restrictions on the holders of public offices in order to secure their impartial and confidential service; or

(g) regulating the technical administration of telecommunications;


but only to the extent that the limitation is reasonable and justifiable in a free and democratic society.


*******************
Everyone should note that these section 30 limitations say that 'freedom of expression' is limited by defamation and hate speech (among other things). Some of the words used by bloggers in Peter Firkin's blog can certainly be defined as hate speech or defamation. This also means that the publisher (eg Peter Firkin) can be sued for publishing defamatory remarks if his individual bloggers, who hide behind anonymity or pen names, can't be found. This is especially so if the publisher publishes lies.
Anyone wanting to sue will of course have to show that any of these (objectionable) opinions published by Firkin (or others) are NOT appropriate in a free and democratic society but since hate speech and defamation are both unlawful in free and democratic societies, there should be no problem in holding the publishers to account, as there is a higher burden on them to be responsible media outlets.

I think there is a lot of room for robust discussion of the issues in Fiji, but it does not help such discussions if bloggers and their publishers violate the section 30 provisions of the 1997 Constitution which they themselves are seeking to restore. I don't see any point in personally attacking people whose opinions bloggers don't like- anyway under the 1997 Constitution (section 30), it's not allowed.


Dr Shaista Shameem
Elite Fijian 'eat' poor, uneducated Fijian said…
Bring back Qarase

Laisenia Qarase (aka Mandela), Lalabalavu and Teimumu Kepa have been exposed in an illegal native land swap deal. This is a clear example the Fijian elite preying on their kind while using the Indan bogey as a shield. Qarase has offered a feeble and unconvincing explanation that the Native Land owners were happy to SWAP. But as someone rightly pointed out, the resort developers were, by far, getting the best part of the bargain.

The highly-valued piece of native land gets converted to freehold and its value increases dramatically year after year. The land that the Landowners get will not increase in value anywhere near as much over the years.

Is this is kind of deal that people who are elected to represent Fijians, and safeguard their interests, should be getting into? It smacks of the FHA share deals scandal in which elites like Qarase used insider information to buy A-class shares and cream the dividends.

This is modern day canibalism of the financial type, where the educated and knowledgeable cunningly prey on the uneducated and simple. This system has existed in Fiji all this time, and elites like Mere Samisoni, with her royal airs, want to maintain it. Before they were 'couped', some Fijian leaders became so greedy and desperate they even going after native land.

Indians are portrayed as a threat to native land. This incident shows that it is their own kind that the natives have to fear most. Qarase supporters are, of course, in denial.
Joe said…
I hope the receipients of the "kick backs" in this deal are exposed asap. What a greedy bunch of scammers. Put the blame on an innocent lot. No wonder they are shit scared of the reforms that are taking place. I guess this is only the tip of the iceberg.
Crosbie Walsh said…
Before some smart alec comments on the typo in order to ignore the substance of Shaista's letter, I rush to say the word is obnoxious. Croz
Anonymous said…
Croz
you are spot on that the letter is obnoxious. As is all the rhetoric and bullying coming from the idiots who support human rights abusing regimes who consider bashing hog tied persons is ok. Only cowardly gutless fools with no credibility or integrity would do that.
Joe said…
You mean bashing hog tied rapists, murderers, robbers etc. Be a good boy and follow your 1997 constitution as Dr Shameem has pointed out, and prepare for more denials as I can smell a "MOMIGATE" around the corner.
Uncouth and obnoxious said…
Croz
Since the disastrous coup of Dec 5 2006 there has been siginificant uncouth and obnoxious behaviour from coup perpetrators. The kicking to death of a smaller intoxicated man by the Bainimarama crony Kean is a perfect example. Kean is scott free and a member of the illegal regime and given a regime appointment. Very obnoxious.
Military goons dragging people to the barracks and jumping on pregnant women I find very uncouth and obnoxious. Don't you, shameem and the garden gnome agree? Bashing the ankles of roped prisoners is considered by ALL respectable people as very uncouth and obnoxious?
This regime you support was conceived in thuggery and intimidation. When for example will Aziz answer for marching like the coward he is into the Chief Justice's office with guns? That behaviour is very obnoxious. As for the support of the shameem sisters for this thug regime - now that is extremely obnxious, almost as obnoxious as little men with a Napolean complexes beating their tiny chests and actually thinking anyone that matters takes any notice whatsover of their squealing and hysteria. Now go and do what you are best at - bashing your head against a post and achieving SFA.
Anonymous said…
You are the last person to comment - you scumbag - thick as a thief in the 2006 coup. Gosh, your temerity to re-emerge - where have you been hiding all along! Just shut up, and go back to Fiji and help Aiyaz and Frank who you helped to come to power
Anonymous said…
Is it your mummy's gate you can smell or is it shameem's? Now be a good girl and go and wash some military feet.
Anonymous said…
Oh please, thuggery against the entire Indian population (and now the entire Mislim population) for generations, the systematic discrimination in racist affirmative action programmes, violence in the police and prisons, and refusing to pass laws to protect women from male are not cowardly acts?
Anonymous said…
@ anonymous
Can you explain what a 'mislim' is? Doesn't Qorvis have spellcheck?
Joe said…
Yeah, pick on a typo you dickhead, when you have nothing better to say. Bloody loosers !!
Gatekeeper said…
We need to address one or two shibboleths and get to grips with what they reveal.'Shibboleth' is a hebrew word with a fascinating breadth of meaning. One such is: "A catchword or formula adopted by a party or sect by which their adherents or followers may be discerned", or those not their followers may be excluded (1638).

Dolores Ibarruri known as La Pasionaria (the Passion Flower) was 'the most famous Spanish Communist. Always dressed in black, with a grave but fanatical face'.....She was nevertheless a simple, direct and powerful woman who had been to prison many times - thrice under the republic - and twice to Moscow too. In the Cortes (Spanish Parliament)she stood out as the only striking leader in the small if growing Spanish communist party. There were only seventeen communist deputies, all 'unknown and ignorant' in the view of Indalecio Prieto, a socialist moderate."

(Hugh Thomas - Professor of History and Chairman of the Graduate School of Contemporary European Studies at the University of Reading - The Spanish Civil War 1961, 1965. 1977).

'La Pasionaria' (no double-ss in Spanish)also represented the idea of revolutionary womanhood, a strong force in a country which had given the Virgen a special place in religion........'When La Pasionaria spoke in the Cortes on 16 June, she dismissed the fascists of Spain as gangsters'.

This information is vital to any discussion. We need to know whom we address and what their possible, alleged intentions are.

The 1997 constitution seems to have a very healthy attitude towards Free Speech. It has sensible limitations and Blog Site Owners might provide a healthy responsibility and limit their legal liability were they to heed them.

Should the 'uncouth' be permitted free rein? Not at this time they should not.
Anonymous said…
Sigh. Should we wait for another generation to get a response which is not completely devoid of intellect or reason?
Anonymous said…
This is sad when people can’t engage in constructive debate and resort to name calling. Rather than calling CW with all sorts of names under the sun, argue with him and use evidence to supporty your stance rather than name calling. Unless we Fijians can debate like adults in a responsible manner, we have to dream on about bigger issues in life. No wonder Fijian society is going down the drain with rapes, theft etc. These are social issues not the result of this military regime. When we the adults are acting like children here on blogsites no wonder our kids do not have positive role models in our wider Fijian Society.
(Sa yali vei keda na veirokorokovi dina va kaiviti)
Anonymous said…
Yes! The more vicious they get, the more personal their attacks, the weaker their cards. For the record Croz, I like garden gnomes.
Anonymous said…
Trues Up Bro! The abusive language shows how much damage the nationalists have done to our minds. Shallow, nasty, unChristian and unintelligent. Also often unintelligible.
Anonymous said…
How do you get intelligent responses from a vacuum?
Anonymous said…
@AnonymousWednesday, April 10, 2013 at 9:23:00 AM GMT+12:00

Yeah I know it makes me sad as a Fijian. There are some current Fijian Leaders who pick and choose what works for them to meet their political needs or whatever their objectives maybe. Genuine care for the "grass-root" people is just all talk nowadays. Reality is the way Frank Bainimarama usurped to leadership was illegal and will always be, but he seems to be "streets-ahead" of every other current Fijian leaders when it comes to delivering services to "grass roots". But as for others not so. The other thing that saddens me is whilst we push Christianity to others (via call for Christian States), these very same people's actions are unchristian-like. We hurl abuse at people Monday to saturday and then Sunday morning we dress up and sing our hearts out in church, raise our hands to glorify God but come Monday we back at square one. Very very sad indeed.
Anonymous said…
Those that hurl abuse show their lack of intelligence and ability to debate. So many of the democracy seekers seem to only want people to agree with their views. Guess what there are many people who like what Banimarama is doing; i assume in a democratic society you are free to support him if you like
Anonymous said…
Christian is as Christian does. Democrat is as democrat does.
This is Fiji not Pakistan said…
What are you on about you taliban fool? Bainimarama didn't debate when he and his thugs marched into Parliament and took over a legally elected government. This Mohammed Aziz didn't debate when he told the world the military would support the dictator against all other legitimate candidates. Are you in fiji or Pakistan? don't lecture us on intelligence or lack of debate you fool.
Anonymous said…
A legally elected govt that was so undemocratic in nature deserved what it got. The game plan was to steal from your own people and blame the indos. What a shit of a govt it was. Noqu vanua na nomudou sona. Lai vei vutu sona kei na ulukau qarase.
Uncouth attack on Christianity said…
Croz
The islamic attack on Chritianity over the Easter weekend on the khaiyum controlled FBC was not only uncouth it was a HATE CRIME. Why is khaiyum's brother not held responsible for this terrible attack on Christians. Why should Fijians have to put up with these uncouth and obnoxious attacks by muslims on regime controlled radio? It is interesting that junta groupies such as you and Davis stay silent on such attacks? If it was the other way around what would your reaction be?
These attacks on Christians in Fiji have gone on for too long - someone must immediately be held to account for this - immediately!!
Anonymous said…
Croz,

If someone could send you a recording of the broadcast and you sent it to me I could probably look to and see whether it falls into the 'hate speech' category or not under the 1997 Constitution section 30 provisions and international case law on the point. FBCL is a public broadcast entity and would not be allowed to broadcast what would constitute as 'hate speech'.

SShameem
Anonymous said…
Sorry, I meant to say that FBCL would not be permitted to publish what 'would constitute' hate speech.

Also why does your comment column always put me as 'anonymous'? I am not anonymous, as you can see.

SShameem
Anonymous said…
Croz,

I have now heard the recording referred to by your correspondent 'Uncouth Attack on Christianity' above and agree that the recording was inciteful and objectionable and clearly covered by the limitation in section 30, specifically section 30 (2) (d) 'preventing attacks on the dignity of individuals, groups or communities or respected offices or institutions in a manner likely to promote ill will between races or communities or the oppression of, or discrimination against, any person or persons'. This provision is replicated in the Government's draft 2013 Constitution in section 17 (3) (d).

FBCL is a public entity supported by public funds; there is a higher burden on FBCL not broadcast anything which violates freedom of expression laws in Fiji.

I will say another thing too- why should a government that expresses itself as a secular state (as PM Bainimarama has done in recent weeks) allow religious broadcasts on public radio in the first place?

If I were the government I would (i) ask the FBCL Board to ensure that heads roll (at the very top at FBCL) for this insensitive, inciteful and unlawful broadcast on Easter Sunday; (ii) ask some very serious questions about why a broadcast which is not of the appropriate and relevant faith was broadcast on Easter Sunday, which is a Christian festival; and (iii) why, in a purported secular state, there are still religious diatribes (because that is what this mullah is into) being broadcast on public radio. There should be no religious broadcasts at all in Fiji on public radio. I personally find religious broadcasts objectionable. We had enough of those prior to 2006.

Dr Shaista Shameem

Joe said…
Another impersonator, probably from the FLP. What makes you think we will believe you are Dr Shameem. Your choice of words and phrases is not even half as near enough to Dr Shameem's. Why dont you make your points honestly.
Joe said…
In reference to the Dr Shameem impersonator above, he/she is asking for a recording of FBCL Easter broadcast from Croz @ 10:14 am, and in less than an hour, @ 11:05 am, has somehow viewed and analysed it. The credibility of the anti-govt is clearly on display here. It doesnt get any better than this.
Anonymous said…
Well Joe, the 1997 Constitution is not rocket science, dear. You don't have to be Einstein.

Plus the broadcast is on U-tube. The objectionable parts are about halfway through so thankfully you don't have to listen to the whole thing. I am still coming up as 'anonymous', but it is indeed I!

SShameem
Joe said…
Firstly, learn how to navigate on this site so you dont come up as anon. If it is on Youtube, why ask Croz for it. Dont forget we are in 2013, you cant fool people anymore. These tricks of yours only work under mango trees, not in cyber space.
Anonymous said…
What I like about Croz is the way he allows his site to be used for all kind of things without any control. He must really have deep pockets, because anybody knows that in the world of libel, the host of any site is responsible for the comments. And did you know that VB and Aiyz sleep together?
Joe said…
No we didnt know that VB and Aiyaz sleep together. What we do know is that they sleep well with a clear conscious that they are doing the right thing by all citizens of Fiji except scumbags like yourself.
Anonymous said…
Croz - you keep doing the great job you have been doing. The most fair minded commentator on Fiji
Proselytisers of Hate said…
Hate Speech is measurable (by outcome). The disparagement of any religion by adherents of another is likely to fall into this category. In a secular state, this ought not to be tolerated nor supported by public money. But the rantings and ravings of a Hitler are not to be supported either by public money. We will recall that Hitler rose to power in elections but turned quickly into a genocidal tyrant. It took the combined energies of the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, former nations of the British Empire, United States and Soviet Russia to remove him and to free the world (including Fiji and the South Pacific Region). We are told that Christianity was disparaged on Good Friday, not on Easter Sunday. The widest application of the law with regard to Hate Speech should be applied. Not only to the offending Imam but also to the authorised officers who permitted him to broadcast and failed in a duty to protect.
An Eye for an Eye said…
Agree
The khaiyum clan must be brought to account for this terrible rant against Christianity and the treasonous acts they have committed upon the Christian people and the Christian nation of Fiji. They must never be forgiven for this despicable behaviour.
Anonymous said…
The Doctor is right and everyone should please refrain from using hate speeches and be careful not to defame others.

There are laws that governs us and no one wants to take any other to court unnecessarily.

We are all interested in the wellbeing of our country coz we love our dear Fiji.


Joe said…
Stop making a mountain out of a mole. If anyone is to be prosecuted for hate speeches it should start with C4.5 and this Firkin character. FYI Fiji is a secular state and NOT Christian State. Why dont you get your church authorities to lodge a formal complaint instead of mouthing off your rubbish here.
Anonymous said…
SDL supporters are the biggest hypocrites - democracy only when it suits them - where were you in 2000 and in 1987!!
Crosbie Walsh said…
@ Reply to Uncouth Att\acks on Christianity ...I haven't read the mullah's Easter remarks but Dr Shaista Shameem has already criticised them, and I have published her comment. I should not need to make a personal statement on each and every issue. Discerning readers would know I would condemn his comments and FBCL giving him space.
Gatekeeper said…
@ Joe

No Mountain made out of a Molehill here. Hate Speech is a serious violation not only of rights but also of the 'duty to protect'. The authorised officers of the FBC are responsible for allegedly failing to appraise themselves of what was being broadcast/by whom/and specifically when. When the Companies Decree is promulgated there will be no doubt about this whatsoever. In the meantime, let the Crimes Decree #44 of 2009 apply. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, remember?

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